MV Experts: Robert Lopez

This is a machine-generate transcription; it may contain errors.

Mario: It's a sales trick. It's a sales Robert Lopez invented.

Robert: And it was a big one. It was like $8,700,000. There was nothing. Screw this place. This place doesn't get it.

Mario: I need to hire this guy. Probably can't afford him.

Robert: He's way too expensive.

Robert: It's so much further ahead United States. It's unbelievable. I did $20,000,000 in solar.

Mario: You've obviously never been to China. Yeah. First of all, number one.

Robert: Love that. Yeah. Me too. I love it too. How many houses I've done for no charge? It's insane. And anyone that looks like you and hangs out with those girls is gonna be a fantastic sales salesperson. So you're saying I'm ugly?

Mario: Welcome to the Medium Voltage Experts Podcast. I am Mario Dealba, your host. I'm also the CEO and cofounder of Elektrik App Inc or Elektrikapp.com. We consider ourselves at Elektrik App the medium voltage easy button. We think we're experts in medium voltage. And it's not just because of everything we know, but because of the network and the people that we know in the industry. I've decided to interview some of these experts. So join me in getting to know these bright minds and have fun. Okay. Subscribe. Alright. Well, mister Lopez, welcome.

Robert: Thank you. Appreciate you having me.

Mario: Yeah. Thank you for coming to Utah. This is exciting.

Robert: Yeah. Glad to be here. Beautiful day today. 80 degrees, can't beat it.

Mario: So you've been to Utah many times. You were telling me.

Robert: Yeah, I I was here in the Wesco days when I wrote the solar or the Varango and the Vivint National eBoss contracts fifteen years ago.

Mario: Fifteen years. Is Wesco where you started?

Robert: So I started at Platte Elektrik and then went to WESCO from there.

Mario:Sick. And how many years ago was that?

Robert: I've been in the, electrical industry since college. I was recruited into the space. So it's been thirty years.

Mario:So thirty years since you were recruited? Yes.

Robert: Yes.

Mario: And how did they find you? Who was the person that found you and was like, hey, you look like you wanna sell some wire nuts.

Robert: So crazy story. So my senior year in college, I was renting a house with three other roommates and our neighbor next door, he would come to our parties and we'd have live bands. Uh-huh. And he was about fifteen years older than us. He was always the old guy at the party but he partied, went to Texas a and m. Mhmm. And all I knew is he was a manager of company, didn't know where he worked. And so I was getting ready to graduate, put together my resume and I knocked on his door and I said, hey Randy, would you mind looking at my resume? And he's like, yeah. It's like two weeks go by and I call him and like, Randy, can you give me some feedback? And he's like, why don't you come to my office tomorrow and let's discuss it. And so I met with him in his office. Lo and behold, I pull up, it's Platt Electric. Okay. And he was manager of the Rancho Cordova office there. And we talked for like two hours and at the end of conversation, know, he went into Platt organization and how they have BASE which is a branch accredited certification education and then they have PACE which is Platt's accredited certificate education, it's a two year program that they have. And that he would kinda mentor me through that program if I came aboard. So at the end he makes me an offer and I get ready to leave and he's like he's like, hey, do you wanna know why I wanna hire you? And I was like, I was young, know. Uh-huh. Like literally the first job interview I had. And he's like, because I've been to your parties

Mario: Uh-huh.

Robert: And I've seen the girls you hang out with and anyone that looks like you and hangs out with those girls is gonna be a fantastic salesperson. And I was like, so you're saying I'm ugly? And that's kinda how how I'm here today. It's kind of just been a crazy ride, man. That's hilarious. Yeah. You're God given talents to

Mario: pull in the girls, got you into sales.

Robert: Yeah. Mean the ironic part is when I went to the PACE program and I think I was telling your guy earlier that he took 11 of us, and we had to say day one if we were going to management or sales, and I was the only person that said sales Mhmm. In my whole class. So That's awesome.

Mario: Yeah. I I've known you for for a long time and you are a spectacular salesman. What what are and then maybe even a better marketer. Right? You are an incredible marketer too. What are some of those sales things that you learned during that program? What did it shape you? Where did you learn the most? Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of it

Robert: is you know, I look back on it is and I've read all of the Stephen Covey's. I've been to you know, sales seminars and been through the base program, the PACE program. And I've done a lot of this. I read a lot of books too. And you know what? I think what it is more than anything else, it's just the it's the appetite for continual learning for me. I have this thirst of of always wanting to push myself to be better and to kinda know whatever market I'm in to what it looks like in the next five, ten years. Yeah. And so I can plan accordingly where most people just plan for the next day. And I think that's what really has separated me in my career is that ability to kinda foresee what's coming. And the downside of that is when you're in sales, it's a great attribute. But what I learned when you get into management, it's a really really tough attribute especially when you work for a a fortune 500 company.

Mario: Yeah. So let's talk about that. So when you

Robert: went to Platt, it was like what, 1995? It was, yeah, '95, '95, '96. Right around there.

Mario: So you go to Platt,

Robert: you do the PACE program. PACE program first. PACE. And then the and then the PACE program, yes.

Mario: How long until you go to the next thing? And what was the next thing?

Robert: Yeah. So great question. So when you graduate from the PACE program, you're automatically put into a program where your hyper growth promotion rate, right? Okay. So at the time, I was I had I had started at at the counter sales, I had moved up, you know, doing, you know, some some some management stuff, like assistant management stuff, learned inventory management. Mhmm. And then I became an inside salesperson through that two years of going through that program. And at the time, I was the inside sales support for the number one salesperson in the country for Platt electric. Okay. In the country. At Rancho Cordova. At Rancho Cordova.

Mario: Cool.

Robert: And she was a beast. And I learned a ton from her too, but I also learned a ton of not what to do too. And so there was pressure on the manager to promote me and I wanted to go in sales, outside sales. Right? That was my goal. And so I I kept they kept getting he kept getting calls from corporate. I kept saying, hey, wanna go out. And the problem is in in distribution, the number one hardest position to backfill is inside sales. Yeah. The number one.

Mario: I I agree with that.

Robert: Especially if you have a good one, which Yes. I've only in my career, I've probably seen three or four what I consider good ones. They're very difficult to Very difficult. Yeah. So two years goes by, I'm still inside sales. Right? So this is like '99. Yeah. And so I that's when I got I took the first phone call from Wesco. Okay. And they said, hey, we wanna hire you outside sales starting right away.

Mario: Is this the same right around the same area Yes. Rancho?

Robert: That was the Sacramento branch for Wesco at

Mario: the time. Okay.

Robert: And at the time I felt like I was indebted. I mean, spent money on me, kind of the Platt family that they call

Mario: it, right? Had Platt When did Platt get acquired

Robert: by was way after I was gone. Way after. Yeah. Way after I was gone. So then I said, no. I turned them down the first time. Wesco. Wesco. And another year goes by and I'm still and the manager's like, listen, not I we can't I can't play. I mean, we have the largest branch in Platte. You're servicing the customers. They love you. I can't. And so I I had this conversation with myself and this was literally the same year I was getting married too. And where I said, okay, I have to do what's best for me. Yeah. Because there's really nobody here is looking out for me, they're just looking out for their bottom line. Yeah. Right? And so, they Wesco had called me again and this time I I took position. And

Mario: Was Wesco at the time just like now the largest

Robert: distributor? Wesco at the time was

Mario: because they hadn't acquired an annexation.

Robert: Was larger at that time. Okay. And then Wesco eventually overtook them but I think Grey Bar was larger at that time. But it was like, when when I look back at my friends like, what was the difference going from Platte to Westco? It was literally like going from the farm leagues to the major leagues. Yeah. I mean, literally. I mean, was different. Like the acumen for business, the the goals to get to the size of the orders, the abilities to to add value to customers. It was just a different ball game.

Mario: Yeah. And then so it's around 2,002 thousand 1, you go to West Coast. Mhmm. Is that it's an outside position.

Robert: Yeah. So when I went there, was, I wanted to learn West Coast first.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: So I asked them, what they can do for me for a few months to learn WESCO, so they put me in the quotations. So I was that's why I learned power and lighting quotations. So they had a power and lighting quotations person. So I worked hand in hand with the outside sales people, learned the WESCO system. So I did that for about six months and then I went outside sales. And so I did, so at Wesco at the time, they had a a base plus draw commission structure. What does draw mean? Draw means they give you say, like, I don't know, $4 a month. And then if your commissions exceed that $4 a month Yeah. Then you get the difference. Or if they don't, they they pull it back.

Mario: Kinda like on target. That's what we called it

Robert: at 3. Yeah. So yeah. That's what they call it here, the draw system. Cool. And so their their big boy, commission plan was a at the time was a 100%, straight commission sales plan.

Mario: Right? And what percentage was that of your sales?

Robert: It was 18% of the gross margin.

Mario: Of gross margin.

Robert: Gross margin. So so when I heard that, I was instantly, okay, that's my goal. Yeah. Right? And so fast forward, it takes I mean, there was at the time, I think there was maybe five or six people in the country on that plan. And, you know, you also gotta remember too when I went outside sales, what I what I have seen through my career is when we hire people outside, we give them an account base.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: I was never given account base. What was told, okay. We had two people there. One was calling on the state and one of the OEM. The other one was calling on, you know, whoever else. And they said and there was a big market and they said, go find customers. And so fast forward one year in outside sales, I was doing enough in GM to qualify for the 18% plan. Nice. And that was one of the scariest moments in my career looking back because it it was literally that feeling of like standing on a 300 foot ledge and looking over. I mean, you're talking there's no draw, there's no car allowance, there's no phone allowance, there's no expenses for customers. It is all you. And I had just gotten married Yeah. And trying to start a family. I'm like, am I just the craziest person on earth or what? And looking back, it was the best decision I ever made financially, obviously. It was a great decision. I mean, I was able to do things and kinda build a nice little wealth egg at a young age, which was awesome. And I met some great customers along the way.

Mario: I was gonna say, so they didn't give you a single like an account base, so you had to go out and find those accounts?

Robert: I had to find them. I had to set up credit. I had to set up terms. I had to align our product base with what they were buying. I mean it was a was a big deal.

Mario: You're running like a branch on

Robert: your own. Yeah. I mean it was kinda similar to I mean if you I mean, we'll get into it, how I started the renewables division at at Wesco and Graybar. I mean, it's it's an organic growth business model within a large portion family organization. At

Mario: Plaid as an inside salesman, was it just straight salary or?

Robert: Yeah. Good question. So when I started there, it was straight, salary, and then they eventually, gave me salary plus 2% of gross margin, which which at the time, 2% was a lot for an inside salesperson.

Mario: Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot. What, as an inside sales and while you were at Plaid, were you just like a jack of all trades? You you just had to go and find wire and conduit and anything. From an inside salesperson? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No.

Robert: I would get a bill of material from a customer or I'll give you a perfect example of of something that I still think about to this day. I mean, I was inside salesperson and someone brought into a counter a concrete piece off a off a concrete pole that someone had backed over and they had thrown away and all they had was this piece of aggregate. Oh my gosh. And the counter guy brought it to me and I found the pole based on the aggregate That's wild. Piece that they had because they had to match existing. I mean, that's just I mean, and back then, you know, Miramar, there is no Internet. We're going through catalogs. Yep. And so Oh, I remember. And we had walls of catalogs, you know. And and I'm just pulling out, okay, all of the concrete poles and I'm matching it, I'm calling them, I'm okay, so I have this pigment. I mean, it was crazy. Yeah. That's fun.

Mario: Yeah. Okay. So you go plaid inside, west go outside. Yep. You get a taste of the honey, full commission.

Robert: Yep.

Mario: How long until they they come and say, hey, renewables? Yeah. How did that all come out? I mean, that must be a crazy story.

Robert: It is a great story. So so in 2007, okay, I'm humming along, I'm making Presidents Club every single year. I've made I think 16 or 17 Presidents Clubs in my career. Cool. And at that time I had self taught myself to be a switchgear specialist which to this day is kind of a passion of mine. Mhmm. And a lot of people don't know that about me. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I I self taught myself the the Eaton Bidman software platform. And because what how would happen, I I would go to these customers and we could be in the plan rooms and they're scanning off all these e sheets. And I'm like, why are we scanning these e sheets? Why can't we just bring a laptop with an error card, which for you probably sounds foreign, but you probably remember what an error card is. And just do the estimate right there in office and email them the quote right there. Mhmm. And so I just said, I'm I'm gonna figure this out. And so I just spent the I literally went to the Eaton office, sat over the corner the shoulder of some of the account managers and I I'd say within six months solid. I learned it at a super super high level where I became super valuable to the design build contractors in the Sacramento Valley. Cool. And I was writing everything I wanted. And then I leveraged that into writing the lighting stuff because the lighting orders were were quoted direct and it was up to the contractor to make decision on what distributor they wanna run it through. Mhmm. So I would say, hey listen, if I'm gonna quote you switch gear Yep. I want the lighting too. And so I had a run there where I was I mean it was it almost became easy I would say for me where a lot of people struggled in outside sales. And I remember when I was at West Coast, I still have it on my desk at home. I have 10 business cards of 10 different people who who were I shared my office with outside sales who never made it. And it's kind of like that reminder of me like because I always think of like, why me? I'm not special. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I'm not I'm not the sharpest. I don't But I think that I know just enough about everything. I'm just curious enough Mhmm. That I'm and I'm so determined enough and I'm gonna figure it out.

Mario: Yeah. Right? It's funny because I tell I was talking with Zuleika, you just matter. Yeah. And I was like, Zuleika, do you wanna know what's gonna make you from good to great in this industry? Is when you grab those catalogs from what we do medium voltage. Yeah. He put them in your bathroom. Yeah. And that's what you read while you're in the bathroom and you become an expert. And you're the person that when they think I need an expert, they think Fuleca. It's not. Like you with the switch gear, they thought I need an expert. Yeah. And then you're there.

Robert: I mean, you know, that's a perfect thing. They say that your superpower is what you do when others aren't looking.

Mario: Yeah. And it's the They're not looking. Because people don't don't know the Yeah.

Robert: The times I spent at night reading For sure. And and learning in the weekends and and that you know. And then when I got into management, was telling people that when you tell people that what you did, they think it's foreign. They're like, well, I'm not getting paid to do that. Right. Right? Well, mean, that's the difference being good and great. Yep. Right? What do wanna be in? You wanna you wanna be someone that's getting to sit here and across from you today and have have some some good expert analysis? Or do you wanna be someone that's just a regular person? Right? And and so I just, know, I chose a different route. Know, I I wanted to and again, it goes back to I'm not the smartest guy, Mario. I mean, you you know, you're building a quite a successful company here when you've got a lot of bright people around you. You're pretty dang smart.

Mario: That's for sure. Okay.

Robert: That's thirty years of smart. So so

Mario: get into get into how they come and tap you on the shoulder. Yeah. And let's go do this weird renewable thing. Yeah. This is popping up probably Yeah. Yeah. Late two thousands. Yeah.

Robert: So what happened in 2007 right before the two thousand eight collapse Yeah. With one of my design build, customers. And he says, Robbie, he's like, design build seems like it's slowing down. And we were on this run. Yeah. I mean, the early two thousand was nuts. And, he says and he was someone like me and to the to this day where I would count him as probably I have four personal best friends and he's one of them. He was a customer, started as a customer. And he said, I think we need to look at getting into something else, Rob. I think something big's coming. And he called it. I'll never forget this man. And then he brought in a solar magazine because we would have dinner every Thursday night. And and at the time, Solar Depot was the only distributor in America and they were in Humboldt County, which was only an hour and a half from our house.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: So we registered for their classes, and I'll never forget this, Mario. Me and him show up and we're clean-cut electrical guys. Right? And they're all hippies. They're all long hair, gray hair.

Mario: A

Robert: whole class of them and us. And what they were doing, they were just learning how to put together solar for their farms.

Mario: That's cool.

Robert: The cannabis farms

Mario: up there,

Robert: right? I mean, nobody was wanting to learn it to go sell it on a house or a building or whatever, right? And it's so funny I look back now at how few manufacturers were back then to how many are today. It's nuts. Right? And so yeah, so we took the classes and then I reenrolled in at Sac State and took a couple more renewable energy classes, so did he. We did night classes. Again, 100% straight commission all on my own time doing this, right? And and then 2008 came, boom. Yeah. Right? And if you remember, the administration put out renewable energy monies, right? And so me and him spent all day reading all about it and there was a handful of projects that were getting bid in the California Central Valley area. And so I'll never forget the first project we bid, There was a team of six of us from his place. We worked all night literally till from like, I would say three in the afternoon till six in the morning putting together this bid and and and we when we submitted it, there was a plumbing company that submitted one. There was us and there was like this steel fabricator. It was like three bids but because people were hurting for business. They were like, this is the only thing available.

Mario: Yeah.

Robert: So and at the time

Mario: So this is you and your buddy?

Robert: Yeah. Me and my buddy, the contractor buddy.

Mario: Okay. And this is like separate to Wesco or No.

Robert: This is why I was at Wesco. But he was At Wesco. Yeah. So but you gotta remember, at the time Wesco wouldn't open up nobody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I told myself after years of experience that if I brought in an order Yeah. And it had margin, I'm gonna get open. And so the term was get it in the boat. Yeah. Right? So long story short, we got it in the boat. Okay. And it was a big one. It was like $8,700,000. And then in 2008 terms when there was nothing, that was a big deal. Mhmm. And I'll never forget I bypassed my manager, I went straight to the VP, I called him up, Jeff, and he's like he gave I remember I still remember the call. He's like, what are you calling me for? And I was like, I need you to it was called an eight eight eight back then at Wesco. It was like where the VP could instantly sign on a manufacturer

Mario: k.

Robert: Without background checks or nothing. And I told him, gave him all the information. He's like, send it to me, I'll approve it. I was like, what? And we were in the business. I was

Mario: the first person So cool.

Robert: First person in the country to sell solar. First deal, 2,008, large it was a it was three apartment buildings is what it was. In Monterey, California.

Mario: In Monterey.

Robert: Yep. Never forget it. We used Solon modules. We used

Mario: So when you go and play Pebble, you still see the apartment complex?

Robert: Well, I grew up in Monterey too, so it's kind of like a great thing. Know, I went to high school there. That's cool. But yeah, so I mean, it pops up on my Facebook every year and so I'm always resharing. It's pretty cool.

Mario: That's cool. That's awesome. Okay. So you start renewables at Wesco. What happens next? Okay. You get this $8,000,000 war.

Robert: So, so I have no inside support, remember. I process all the orders myself. Right? Because you gotta remember, it's only a it's modules racking verse three orders. Mhmm. And then the BOS, which is what I was doing anyways, pretty standard stuff. And so that first year, I did $20,000,000 in solar. Okay. 20,000,000. I mean, was a big number in

Mario: 2000. It's still

Robert: a big number. Right? And 2009, the CFO for Wesco flew out to meet me personally in that little branch in Sacramento. Never forget this. Cool. Tall skinny white haired guy. And I was nervous. I'm like, why? And I'm asking my my manager doesn't even know why he's coming. He's like, he's he says he's coming to meet you. And he's like, hey. Because so back then, I don't know what it is now. Wesco had a a their business kinda go to market with their employees was they expected to get at least a million dollars per employee.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: That was kind of the thing, right? So here I am creating 20,000,000 Yep. One person, Right? And so he comes to me, he's like, hey, I I need to find out what how you're doing this. Right? He want and which I appreciated him. He flew out from Pennsylvania to ask me these questions and Mhmm. And I was and then all of a sudden I got motivated because I was like I was like, hey, Steve, we gotta do this and we gotta do this. You know, this we're we're the first ones at the time there was no CED Green Tech. I was the first one in. There was nobody else. Right? And I said and I gave him kind of this whole strategy that I had built and we gotta do it. And he says, I'll never forget this. There's a few things in my life that have been just like great things that people have told me. This is another one he said that kinda motivated me and then it's also brought me back full circle. He says, sometimes Robert, it's better to be a slow second than a fast first. And I never forgot that. And actually, probably something that you should hear too, Mario, because it's true. Because when you're starting a startup, you wanna be fast.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: Right? But what what what he meant by that is is that Wesco's a big company Mhmm. And he wants others to fail first and make the mistakes before he goes all in. Mhmm. At the time, I was young and I didn't I didn't get that second part. I was upset. Matter of fact, I was so upset, I packed my stuff when he left and I went home. I was like, screw this place.

Mario: This place doesn't get it.

Robert: I was like, this is the future. We gotta go all in. This is our time. And so anyway, so the next year goes. I think I wrote wrote 40,000,000 in 2010. And then and then they asked me to put together a strategy go to market for the district for a big district meeting in that q one of that following year and I put together and I'll never forget going through the slide deck and I I hit the last enter and it was like this poof of smoke and it says a 100,000,000. And I'll never forget this Mario, all the managers laughed at me. They all laughed at me to this day. And I was like, really guys? Like that because because all they know is new is electrical. Right? Well, I knew electrical and solar. Right? And so so q two comes and my VP came to me and he said, Rob, we want to because he used to call me Lopez Solar back then. And he's like, I need you to need you to bring you in as a manager. I need you to start a bunch of West Coast Solar's cross country. Right? So basically build a team. Yeah. And so at that time, Soligent was I had thought was a big player. I I later learned they weren't as big a player as I had thought at that time. But they had I had met them at certain events, company events, know, module events and stuff like that. And we had started a small team. We probably had four or five, maybe six people across country then. Well, they approached me, I think it was our sales manager approached me and he says, hey, my whole team wants to come work for you. Wow. Come work for Wesco. And so I I took Jeff the opportunity and to Wesco's credit, they hired all of them. Amazing. They hired all of them. And that was, you know, that was I don't know what year that was. That was probably, I 2000 No, 12/13, somewhere around there. I don't really recall exactly what what that was but that was kind of like the That was the change, right? That was where you know, they wanted to do they came from Zulgent where there was mostly residential and I was doing a lot of commercial and some residential. Mhmm. Because I've always been the guy that like, you know, push. Okay. Residential is cool but, you know, not that cool. Let's go in commercial. It's harder. And then you know, like today, I'm in the utility space. Mhmm.

Mario: So Yeah. Because utility up until fifteen, sixteen, it was all wind. It was. Right? Yeah. Were you doing any wind at the

Robert: time? No wind at this time. We were we were just basically doing the the core components in the E BOSS. That's what I called it. Okay. And and so you know, so what what came then in at Westcoon, it came to from when I when I moved on, which I thought I was gonna be there forever. I was I was there for seventeen years. And, you know, to this day, I mean, the the the final kicker for me was when they decided to cap my commission. And to this day

Mario: It's a cardinal sin.

Robert: I've talked to many many people in distribution and I still have not met another person that has been kept on their commissions ever. And so and believe it or not Mario because I'm such a loyal person, when they first kept me I stayed for another three years. And and then it just became like, you know, you want me to motivate this team, you want me to write strategy, you want me to maintain all these vendor relationships, you want me to build margin, grow the business, and then you don't want to take care of me? Yeah. What what are we doing here? You know? And you know, my good friend, actually probably one of my best friends, he's a CEO of a lot at the time a large company and he was you know, he's been my mentor for over thirty years and so I always bounce these things up. Matter of fact, the first time it happened, he said, Rob, I should leave. And I wait and I said, no I can't. I gotta stay on and then he's like, give it another year, blow it out. They they they gotta keep reinstate you. They didn't only thing I kept getting was Presidents Club, but still, was like, come on, guys.

Mario: Where would they take you guys for Presidents Club?

Robert: Oh my god, dude. Where'd you guys go? Everywhere. Maui. We did Cancun. Cool. They've they've done Europe, Australia. Yeah. I mean, I've been to some some amazing spots.

Mario: That's awesome.

Robert: I mean, Greece. Oh, I love Greece. So cool. Yeah. The the islands of Greece and I mean, yeah. Very cool. Some great places. And the cool thing about Presidents Club, just to kinda finish on that is, you know, Presidents Club is that it's that one thing when you work for a corporate America that it it it when you're there and you're amongst peers that have had have grinded us like you have, the conversations you have there are different than your daily conversations in your life. And so that week, week and a half you spend with those people is utterly amazing. It really is, man. It's and if you've never been on one, man, if you wanna institute one, it's it's another level. It really is. And even at at Graybar, their their programs even I would say even higher elite and tougher to make than than West Coast was. And because they take fewer people. And that one and then they have like a they have like a President's Club two point o, which is another trip that you can go with just with the CEO, which is even smaller, which is after the first trip. I mean, it's crazy. That's cool. Yeah.

Mario: No. I when when I was at 3AM, I never made it. I think the year I was gonna make is the year I left.

Robert: Oh, really?

Mario: Yep. I was leading the chart and it was time to move on.

Robert: Yeah. Both years when I left Westco and Gray where I was supposed to go on each one of those. I mean it's it is what it is. Know, I mean it's you know, we'll get into it but you know, it's I thought I it was because my dad remember, I I didn't tell you his my dad, but my dad worked for two companies his whole life. So that's kinda was raised

Mario: What did he do?

Robert: Being loyal. So my dad worked for a concrete company. Mhmm. He started out, had a moving company. His dad had a moving company so he worked for his dad. He Then worked at a concrete company and then he ultimately worked for Albertsons Grocery Oh yeah, I know. In produce warehouse for years. So he's a teamster, so he's you know, kind of one of those guys, right? So I mean, dad always taught me that, you know, you do what's right, you climb the corporate ladder and Mhmm. And so that's kind of the I mean, my generation I think is comes from that where Yep. You and so like my buddy who's the CEO, he he's from that cloth too. And what you learn is that there's a lot of politics that go go on in corporate America. If you don't fit that mold then and or if you're hyper productive, they keep you there. Mhmm. Because there's no reason to move you because you're making a lot of people a lot of money. Right. Right? And that's kinda like the one thing that's not talked about Mhmm. In the business, but it's very true. Yeah. I've seen it firsthand many times.

Mario: Yeah. Lately I've seen a few inside salesman that are incredible move on companies because another company offered them an outside. Oh yeah. And they wanna go outside. And then some of them find out it's not even all that great.

Robert: It's funny you brought that up. I've seen a lot of great inside sales people who thought they can go outside sales and they fail. Yeah. It's tougher than you think. It's a different mentality.

Mario: So you said it's harder to find a good inside than great outsides. Yep. Why do outside get usually paid more?

Robert: That's a great question. It's a great question. You know I know I look at the outside sales people and this is again, remember this is through the distribution eye. And know, when I was an outside salesperson, I always tripped on you know, I'd have vendors call me like Hubbell calling me three m, you know, all these Krauss Heinz. And they knew a lot about their product. Right? And I was always impressed like how much they knew. And then I and I looked at myself and I go, I gotta know yours, theirs over theirs. I gotta know a lot about a lot is what I used to tell myself. Right? And so being a distribution salesperson, especially being a high level one is very difficult. And you don't think that in the first probably five, maybe even ten years of of doing it, but later on when you look back, you're like, wow, man. It's it's it's a lot of information that you have to take in and you have to know at a high level because the contractors are basically you're you're their guy, right? And so that I mean, I said, it kinda goes back to constantly learning and understanding it and being that person. But I was always in my younger career, like, what would be like to be a Hubble rep or be a three m rep? I bet you that job's so much easier, you know. And and it's funny because now that I work for Washington Cable, you know, I just gotta know a lot about cable. And to be honest with you, in a lot of ways, it's easier. I would agree. A lot of ways,

Mario: it is. Manufacturer one is a lot easier.

Robert: I mean, I'm just dealing with purchase orders. Have another couple zeros. Right? So I mean, it's it's it's different. Right? And the sales cycle's longer, you know, there's a lot more certifications and quality reports and audits and stuff like that. But it's not that everyday transactional business that that goes on in distribution.

Mario: Yep. So two more minutes on on your career. Yeah. So you crash it West Coast seventeen years. You go do renewables. People are paying attention, I'm sure.

Robert: Mhmm.

Mario: Is that how GraeVar found you or did you go to the solar company first?

Robert: Yeah. Actually, I went to Sunworks first. So they were my number one customer. They had just gone public, asked me to come on as their senior vice president. And they the biggest reason they wanted me is because nobody knew how to run a public company Mhmm. And they were public. And I had been working for a public company. So I knew kind of that corporate structure. Mhmm. And what I found was I was I was the guy that for that three years. Right? I I would tell them, okay, you can do this, you can't do this. And and it was fun because it was kinda that startup mentality still then they were they were still kinda constructing the ship as they were building it in a lot of ways and and they had great people there at the time. And I had always wanted to be on the customer side to kinda see what the value was of distribution and how they were viewed and then what pitfalls they go through. Believe it or not, contractor business is similar to a distribution business. It's it mirrors in a lot of different ways. Like what? Just cash flow, inventory, you know, on time deliveries, you know, project deadlines. I mean, they they kinda it it a lot of it mirrors distribution, especially when we're running a project. Yeah. It's the same thing. Right? But you learn the I would say more so the importance and more so of, like, like, when you miss a deadline from a distributor of how it affects the customer. Yeah. Right? Because not only is it just downtime, it's lost time. Right? And so it's it's a double whammy and I got to learn that firsthand. So it was great learning experience on that side and then but at the time, you know, I was getting told by a lot of people who especially saw me kinda grow Wesco Renewables from nothing that you'd say, oh man, you got lucky that time and and and then when Grevar called, I'm like okay, here's my chance to kinda go back in distribution and then if I do it again, no one could say it was luck. Mhmm. And so that was like I said, everything I'm driven by is challenge. And so that was the challenge I put in my head. Mhmm. Was that okay? First time luck, I get it. You know, people entrepreneurs have a startup, they get bought out first time luck, Right? Whatever it happens. Right? But if I do it a second time, what are they gonna say? Yeah. And and to to this day, I mean, in thirty years, I've never seen another vertical within a fortune 500 distributor start from zero and become a full fledged vertical within that company without an acquisition. I have never seen it. Because all of these distributors, the way they grow into verticals is through acquisition typically. Yep. Right? So you just don't see it. Right? So that wasn't that's something that I'm I'm quite proud of. Yeah. And you know, I think that a lot of people have, that I've hired and have, I mean, I mentor still people that I've hired. Mean

Mario: So this is 2020?

Robert: Of what? Going

Mario: to When you go to Graybar from Sandworks?

Robert: It was, say I was at I was at Graybar for six years. So 02/2038. Yeah. Okay. '18 I went there and then and so

Mario: And so that's like when solar is really picking up.

Robert: It was really ripping and at that time, you know, the I you know, I looked at the whole distribution go to market strategy, you know. Green tech was killing it in residential, but nobody was really focused a 100% on commercial at that time. People were just kinda dabbling in it and taking orders here and there. And so the business plan I wrote for Graybar was we were a 100% into commercial. 100%. Not utility? Not well, not utility initially. Initially. But we did eventually go get into the

Mario: But you're like, we're not gonna go do the solar the roof solar with No. That's the Westco.

Robert: Yeah. They can have that. Okay. They can have that business.

Mario: We're gonna go after Albertsons. Yeah. And their parking lots.

Robert: We're gonna go Costcos and Targets and and, you know, Sam's Clubs and

Mario: High schools?

Robert: Where are you guys doing? High schools and we were doing VA buildings, VA hospitals, parking structures. We'd we'd done San Jose Airport parking structure. So I mean, we were so we were focused on the commercial portion of of the business. And then about probably three years into that plan is when I brought in the utility piece.

Mario: Yeah. And probably your clients were starting to move that way too.

Robert: Yeah. I mean, the commercial business was still good, but I mean, you know, changes in legislation and and Yeah. You know, kilowatt rates and then batteries were coming in. Right? And you know, now batteries are coming so far down in price. They're getting more and more used.

Mario: But Okay. Are the infamous person, I believe, that brought the whole twenty year warranty Yep.

Robert: B s. Yeah. B s.

Mario: And I say b s okay. Because So it fails twenty years from now. Yeah. I'm probably not gonna be around. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I deal we deal with that constantly. Like Right. Three m, TE Yep. Give these outrageous warranties Yeah.

Robert: They give them long.

Mario: Twenty, thirty years. And I was talking with Tim the other day. He's like, oh, that was Robert. Yeah.

Robert: Who put that all together?

Mario: Put those thoughts in their called

Robert: it the boss twenty. Actually, I

Mario: Boss twenty.

Robert: I convinced three m and three m and, Panduit. Uh-huh. And, Burndy had never officially signed off on it. But three m, Panduit, and I think were the two that were for sure onto a Boss 20 program.

Mario: How how did that come up about? Yeah.

Robert: How it came about was, you know, you gotta remember my maturation from residential to commercial and utility, right? And everything was based on a twenty, twenty five year warranty. Right? Yep. And so I was getting called Which is cable. Right? Yeah. Well, cable cable only has one year warranty. One year. One year. Our our cable has a two year but Okay. A majority of cables have a one year. Uh-huh. So what and so what what how it has how it started was I got a call from a a utility contractor and he wanted a twenty year warranty on his transformer that we were selling.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: Right? And they're I've been selling transformers for a long time and they're one year. And so I went to the customer I went back to the vendor and he said, charge them double and they can have a twenty year warranty. Okay. And the customer took it. Wow. Yeah. Because the way they looked at it was that transformer theoretically in twenty years is gonna be less cost than it is today. Although no one knew we would have COVID and hyperinflation like we've had, you know, who knows what the real percentage is but Yeah. It's it's probably a lot more today. Yeah. Right? So I I got in my head, I'm like, okay, well, maybe not transformers, you know, maybe not switch gear but why not some of these items? Because I know, gotta remember I've been in this business a long time, never seen, you know, big issues with any voltage rubber goods. I have never seen big issues with fiberglass enclosures, grounding. Right? And unless because you can always go back to installation incorrect incorrectly because nine times out of 10

Mario: More than nine. Yeah. 99%. Exactly. Point nine.

Robert: Yeah. But when I would get a call from a customer, there's a problem Yeah. It was usually installed incorrectly. For sure. Right? And it's not no fault of theirs. It's just that natural reaction that all of us have as human beings. We wanna blame somebody else. Yeah. It's never it's not us, not my team. But it but it truth and reality is it it probably was.

Mario: Probably was. Right?

Robert: And so that's the way I looked at it was that, you write this really light warranty, right? Because really that's in the details is the warranty. Right? And if if we all know history is 99% like you said, then what's your really what's your risk? Yeah. Really? Right? And so that's kind of the way I came up with the boss 20 and and my head thought was, okay, I'm gonna if I wrapped all of these e boss products into a boss 20 platform, my thought was I would go sell it to the idea to the developer, not to the EPC. So that they would spec in the boss 20 platform. That was my plan to this is

Mario: That's awesome.

Robert: Ten years ago.

Mario: It's awesome. Right?

Robert: And this is again this is again Mark. It kinda goes back to thinking five or ten years ahead of where this is heading.

Mario: All three of them bought in.

Robert: I know hard. They did. They loved that.

Mario: Yep. Because they knew.

Robert: Yeah. They knew.

Mario: There's no no real failures. No. And it's and when there there is Yeah.

Robert: Like PVC. I've never seen PVC go bad. Right? But to convince like I come to like Atkore to put a twenty year warranty is tough because I mean they're a huge huge company. Right? And I understand it, know. Burndy was reluctant. They didn't wanna give a twenty year warranty either. You know, I get it.

Mario: It's wild that you convince fortune 500 companies. I know. Extended warranties. That's nuts.

Robert: Yeah. But I think at the time you gotta remember, they were all late to the game. Mhmm. And when I brought it to them, they were like, okay, this is our chance to get in. Right? Put in. Yep. Because they were literally all the e boss guys were late. All of them. I mean, think about it. Look look what Bernie did. Bernie bought Wiley. That's how they got in. Yeah. Right? I mean

Mario: That's a wild story. Yeah. That's really cool. Okay. So we have you to blame for some of our conversations.

Robert: Can blame me. I'll take that one. We I call it being innovative.

Mario: Yeah. Very. Yeah. Sales. Sales. Two weeks ago, I'm on the phone with a project manager for a solar farm. I'm like, well, what about Hubbell? What about Richards? Like, no. It's gotta be three m or TE. I'm like, why? Yeah. Like, they're literally made basically in the same factory.

Robert: Yeah. They are.

Mario: And and the guy's like, oh, it's the warranty programs we have in our quality management group. We'll not take anything other than those two Yeah. That give us twenty, thirty year warranty. Yeah. It's like, okay. So you're telling me in thirty years from now, the solar farm, it's probably gonna be sold Bought

Robert: and sold probably three or four times.

Mario: Yeah. And they're gonna go find the one t body that cost the $300 No. Because of a thirty year warranty. Give me a break. Exactly. So

Robert: Anyhow. Let just think about it. It's a spot for me. How many Because people even use one.

Mario: Makes no sense. Yeah. It's a It's a sales trick. That Robert Lopez invented. Everybody Most people sell fear. Yeah. You sell hope. I sell hope. No. Obama ran on hope. Remember that. Obama.

Robert: That's pretty

Mario: awesome. Oh my gosh, dude. Okay. So you go do it at Graybar. Yep. Are you at liberty to share you where you started dollar wise and where you grew it to by the time you left or is that confidential?

Robert: Yeah. I mean, it's probably confidential now because I'm probably still within the the time frame. But I mean, you can pretty much say it was as close to zero as possible. I could tell you that. Okay. And I I will tell you that it was the it was the fastest growing vertical in the in the company. Can At say Graybar.

Mario: At We'll take billion dollar. Yep. That's awesome.

Robert: Year over year. And it's on their their hyper growth strategy plan. Yeah.

Mario: Very very cool. No. And Graybar, Wesco, they're all our customer. Platt, they're all our customers.

Robert: That's great.

Mario: Really cool. Okay. So you go, and this is about a year ago, year and a half ago. A year and a give me a I the day you called me and we're like making a move, Mario.

Robert: Yeah.

Mario: And you're like, I'm going and actually you were teasing me for about a month. Like, I'm I'm going somewhere else. I've been studying the market. I'm looking at things. You're like, I'm going to this cable company that granted

Robert: Nobody heard of. I've cataloged

Mario: more cable in our database I bet you have. Than most people have ever seen in their lifetime. So I know Prismium, General, Okanite, Southwire, LS, to some degree, AWG or WTech or you have, you know, the priorities or Omnis. Some of them, they don't make their

Robert: own They don't

Mario: make their own wire. So you have a lot of what I call brokers Yeah. That act as brands. Correct. Not true brands like Southwire or Prismium. You're like, I'm going to this washing. Yeah. I I I didn't know how to pronunciate it. So how do

Robert: you It's say washing. So just like Washing. Like washing your hands. It's washing cable. Yes.

Mario: Cool. So you go to this washing Mhmm. And the first thing I asked, I I was like, are they a true manufacturer? Right. Or are they a white label brand?

Robert: Correct.

Mario: Do you remember what you told me? I don't. You're like, as true manufacturer

Robert: Yeah.

Mario: As they come.

Robert: Yeah.

Mario: In fact, they make cable for some brands. Can't tell you because I'm under NDA and I'm not going to repeat that here.

Robert: Yep.

Mario: But they are legit.

Robert: Yes.

Mario: And, you know, you go to our website and you start looking at the dimensions of the insulation diameter or the conductor diameter, you're like, holy cow. It's exactly washing cable is this cable. You're like, and people are buying this cable all the time.

Robert: Yep.

Mario: And now they have a direct source.

Robert: Yeah. Yeah. It was an it was a interesting thing in how it all came down to. I mean, I was kind of at an inflection point at Graybar. I was wanting to grow the company at a lot faster rate than they wanted to. And know, being someone that's always been driven by challenge, I felt like that I wasn't being challenged. I mean, they probably thought it was because we were growing at at a high rate for them. Mhmm. But for me, it was, it was more of like I felt like I was getting kicked in the teeth every day. Right? And so how this all came about was one of our largest EPCs came to me and said, hey Rob, I'd like you to attend a meeting with me at RE plus with washing cable. And I'm like, okay, who's washing cable? And he says, you know, we have vetted them out. We've third party tested them. We we know their pricing. They're super aggressive, and we want Graybar to be set up with these guys. Okay. I was like, bingo. Okay. Because

Mario: my my understanding was you were a big LS cable supporter at Graybar.

Robert: We we were a supporter of everybody. I mean, Prismium LS. I mean, it was kind of you know, you gotta remember that business is when it gets in high dollars like that, it's hard to be locked in with anybody.

Mario: For sure.

Robert: Right? The commodity prices change. If they're holding old inventory, they may have a better price in the market.

Mario: Plus it's the manufacturer's job to shine.

Robert: It is. It is.

Mario: Not your job. No. Okay. So you go to this meeting

Robert: and Yes. I go to this meeting and I and this is when I met Jack Yang, CEO. K. And and this is probably the the the thing that kinda just kinda sutured me into the deal was he was such a genuine, smart, like driven, passionate, and he literally lived and breathed the quality of his product. Like Mhmm. Every time I talk to him, what he talks about is quality. And and I was like, man, this guy, you know and then I learned a story. You know, his father started the company and and built it. They brought it to The US and obviously had some white labeling done here. And and then he went to school here in North America and and then wanted to grow the business directly into The US market. So we we put in a headquarters in Irvine, California. Mhmm. And and so when I met him, he's I mean, like I said, I'm feeling all this energy from him and I'm just like and I basically became a consultant for him just because I liked him so much. Mhmm. And I and so after that meeting, I called him and I said, Jack, I said, I think you have something very very good here in this market. And because one, there's limited manufacturers one in The US market. Right? You have a high quality product that at least you say you do, and I believe you. And you have a lot you've convinced a large EPC to buy from you. Big deal. And I said, need somebody who's western, who knows The US market at a very high level, knows all the EPCs, knows the MSA language, knows how to navigate the whole internal processes, everything. And and and I and I honestly wasn't even thinking it was me. I just said this to them, like, in a conversation, like a two hour conversation. And then a week later, he calls me and says, Robert, I want you to be my VP of sales for US and Canada. And I would and then and then, like I said, I wasn't even thinking. I'm like, woah. And also I'm like, woah. And so then I called the EPC, president of the company, and I said, hey, what do you think? And he said, Rob, at this point in your career, he's like, this is probably the best move for you. That's exactly what he told me. And and so, you know, we talked for another week or two and kind of align on strategy. And and one thing I love about Jack is he he gives me full autonomy, lets me make all decisions. He supports me like like no manager ever supported me in my life. Mhmm. Honestly. You know, there's a saying that says, be the manager you always wish you had. Yeah. And I never really had a good one ever. Honestly. You know, I mean Steve Jobs said it, you know, when he was going through a hyper growth spurt in his company, he thought that he had to go hire all these managers. Right? And what he quickly found out was high performing people don't need to be managed. And it's the truth. And I think it's a great thing for you as a young entrepreneur to understand. Right? The high performing people, they manage themselves. Yeah. They really do. I mean, everyone's a high performer that I know of that's in distribution today. Like from Graybar. I mean the guy is I mean he's probably one or two sales larger salesperson on Graybar. He is a beast and he does more in the shadows.

Mario: I need to hire this guy.

Robert: Probably can afford He's way too expensive.

Robert: But he's a I you know, we grew up in the industry together. I've I've mentored him a lot. Matter of fact, if he has an an issue or wants to talk strategy, he always call. Matter of fact, I talk to him three, four times a week every week. I mean, for over twenty years.

Mario: Where is he out of?

Robert: He is out of California.

Mario: California. Yeah.

Robert: Cool. But he's a beast and and there's very we we always send each other memes of stuff that me and him would only get about being in sales. Right? And it's funny. Like he sent me two today.

Mario: I wanna be on those text messages.

Robert: Yeah. You would you would enjoy those. They're really funny. But, you know, I have the utmost respect for him and what he's built. He is he he's he's done a tremendous job. His customers love him. Him, I think he has one, maybe two customers. He's just a beast.

Mario: That's so cool. Yeah. No. I remember when you when you made the move to Washington, people were critical. I remember there. I I heard a couple conversations in passing. I I try really hard not to involve myself in any industry gossip. I really hate it. It's because people gossip about me. Oh, yeah. Freaking disgusting. I don't like it.

Robert: Yep.

Mario: But you are a high profile individual in this industry. You've been around forever. Yeah. And now all of sudden, he's going from director renewables at Graybar

Robert: Yeah.

Mario: To this Chinese cable Yeah. Manufacturer. And I remember people being leery. And I remember thinking, well, you've obviously never been to China. Yeah. First of all, number one. Glad you said that, by the way. And you've never seen manufacturing in China because they are incredible at manufacturing. You gotta realize they make almost everything

Robert: we have here. Yeah. People don't understand, because I I hear it all the time like, oh, China junk, China cheap. And I always say, have you been to China? Yeah. Because China is so much further ahead than The United States. It's unbelievable.

Mario: Their manufacturing is incredible. They they they You know what they lack is the guard rails of safety. Oh, The OSHA type of environment. You know why

Robert: they do though, Mario? And I've been I've been to our, I've I've I've seen a lot of this and actually we just had a CTO audit on our factory

Mario: Okay.

Robert: In The US and we'll get into that. But it's because their people are trained so well that they don't need that stuff. Like when I bring it up to Jack, he laughs at it because it's not something they will do.

Mario: Wait. They have common sense.

Robert: Yeah. Exactly. It's like they're not gonna just go do that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's a different mental the culture is different. You know, they and, you know, the family piece of that of that culture is amazing. What they do for their kids there, I mean, Jack would do he would die for his kids. Yeah. He he he would give his last penny for his kids. It's insane. I mean, it's they they they he wants to send them to best schools. He had he's had his first kid, born here in The US, so he has dual citizenship for so he has best chance of quality of life. He said he's having his next kid here in June. I mean, he's he he does everything for his kids and it's it's just I've I've learned he always questions me. He's like, so you're not gonna pay for your daughter's first house? He tells me. I'm like, no. No way. He's like, the Chinese culture, that's what we do.

Mario: I'm like, holy cow, man.

Robert: It's like, it's a different different deal there, man. You know, and Interesting. But I've learned a ton from him. Like I said, tremendous tremendous leader. You know, there's a difference between a manager and a leader. And I found myself you get the most out of me when you lead me and when you motivate me. And you as a young entrepreneur, and you probably know this, what motivates one person doesn't motivate another person. And I I learned this the hard way when I first got into management because I thought everybody was motivated like me. Mhmm. And it is the absolute garbage. Doesn't that is not true. Yeah. But when you find someone that's like you, I mean, it's like sky's limit. And, you know, and when I was at Graybar, I actually had a couple people that I had hired. Twenty years different in age, but both of them beasts and and both of them

Mario: At Graybar right now? Well, one of

Robert: them left Graybar, went to work for another company, and then one of them is still there today.

Mario: Who is the who's the one that's still there? Can I know?

Robert: Tammy, still there.

Mario: Tammy. You like Tammy a lot.

Robert: I liked her because she proved

Mario: me wrong. She's still following she's still posting about the Got cable thing Yeah. Yeah. And Got Boss and she's continued your

Robert: Well, marketing one thing I love about Tammy is fantastic listener and accepts challenges. And so like when I hired her, she was a she was a coin flip for me. I gotta be honest. And and because one, she had no distribution experience and I was bringing her

Mario: into a high level job. Some of those are the best.

Robert: I know. But typically, it's tough to bring in some only to the call on utility EPC though. For sure. It's a different game. Yes. Right? And and so I had this long conversation with her about it. And and to her credit, she did everything like I would do it, like I told her to do it. Mhmm. And she has been hyper successful for doing that. Awesome. She's tough to manage because she's so passionate about what she does. Yeah. But I will take that all day long, you know? Then someone that mails it in and, you know barely that doesn't make numbers and you're carrying them for three years and then you gotta put them on a pip and then you gotta fire them and then you gotta rehire somebody. That's garbage, man. I'd rather pay someone if if they're providing five x the next person, I'm gonna pay them two three x. Yeah. I would that's that's my mentality. Sure. And that's the way the mentality I think should be period. Right? Get get what you what you give.

Mario: Yeah. Right? What else do you wanna touch on? You know, one of the

Robert: things, I think I told you on my way over here, was like, okay, I got this podcast, what's gonna come up? And you know, and I didn't come on here to plug anything but you know, fifteen about fifteen years ago, I I started kicking around the idea of writing a book. And because I just like I said, I've seen so many people fail and I I never thought I was the best at anything. And like, okay, why have I been successful so many times? You know, after thirty years, you can look back and be like, presidents clubs and growing these businesses and stuff and you know, what makes me different? And

Mario: By the way, whenever I read a book on sales or business, I actually don't like the books that are published by PhDs from universities. Okay. That interview like a million different people.

Robert: True.

Mario: I found this common denominator on the super hyper successful people. Yeah. Alright.

Robert: Well, that

Mario: what I wanna hear from that person not from you. Exactly. And and I think So that this is super cool. I can't wait to

Robert: read it. That's the reason I wanted to to write this too because I never seen a book from a distributor salesperson's point of view. Yeah. That's that it will really help that person at a high level. But but also too, know, people understand you know that if you look at and you know they say that 8020, 20% of the people produce 80% of the sales, right? Well, I I look at it even different than that. The top 23%

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: Are really the people that I kind of really wanna walk the earth with, right? And and so what this book goes into is is how to train yourself in little ways to learn to to become that. And one of the biggest things and this is something that said forever amongst sales books is listening, right? But the book the title of the book is called The Psychology of the Buyer. And and what that goes into is that what I've seen people fail time and time again is what they think works at customer a is gonna work at customer b. It's gonna work at customer c and it's not true. You have to fit yourself into whatever that buyer is. Right? They could be 22 years old, right? Dropped out of college, single parent. I mean, you have to understand their makeup and to understand how they make their decisions. Right? What is their social makeup? Especially, that's one thing another thing I think I proud myself on is that I always try to be around young people. I know you got a lot of young people here. Mhmm. So you're probably doing a lot of the same things is that they bring a lot of different energy. They bring a different insight. They bring different innovation. And so I try to listen to those people like last night when we're playing, I was listening to Isaac. He's got some good information that you don't wanna just discount. Yeah. Right? And so I've kinda like taken that into the book. Right? And so so what I did is fifteen years ago I had the idea and obviously it takes a lot to write a book. And in fact a lot of my family didn't even know was writing and and it was kind of a surprise. And I kinda formulated this this outline by chapters. And I got it to a point where I thought it was very very good. And and enough to where I could fill in the chapters, but I had a fantastic outline. And I sent it to a buddy of mine and he's like, Rob, he's like, this is amazing. He's like, you need to finish this. Right? And and so right now I'm in the final editing of it. I think I sent you a I had the cover work done. I think I sent you a picture of it. Yep. And you know, I'm I'm really excited about it and and it and something that's, you know, it's for me, it's not about making money on it all. Matter of fact, I'm probably gonna sell it for I may even give the proceeds away to a charity probably on it. And but you know, it's it's something that I wanna do and I'm glad I'm going to do it. It's not easy. It's very Especially when you have a full time job and you have family, it's very difficult to do. But and I've learned a lot of things about editing and proofreading and you know, where to buy your books, where to have made the laminate, the thickness of paper. I mean, all stuff and it's foreign to me, right?

Mario: It's insane.

Robert: And but yeah, so we're close and I'm excited and I hope that How long is the book? People enjoy it. It's it's around 320 pages. It's not that long. I did read about that and finding the sweet spot

Mario: and Yep.

Robert: Kinda curtailed it a little bit to fit that. So someone can read it over a weekend. Personal stories? I I did I kinda I did Life lessons? I did some personal stories on the full word and and then, in the back of the book, you know, more sort of the family stuff, you know. Because my family has in in some instances taken a lot of backseat to my career. Right? And I think anyone any everyone I know that is hyper successful, I've seen their families and they're just like mine, you know. And but I will tell you this though. You know, I've raised girls and they are well, one's 28 now and one is 23 and I have a 16 year old at home. I think they have the utmost respect for me though. Like they hold me to another level And and I like that a lot. You know what I'm saying? And and so they appreciate it. Know, like my 28 year old, you know, I wrote when I wrote the Solar City National eBoss contract, I she was struggling, a freshman in high school. And I brought it home, and I wrote a whole outline, I made her sit right next to me. She saw me write the whole thing and put it all together and submit it. And then a year later, I get the call from Julie Graeber that I got chosen for the three year national contract which was at the time the largest e boss contract in the country. And that was a big deal. That was and that was why I was at Wesco. But she saw that, right? And so like when when certain people even today, it's a real say stuff about me, she's like, you don't know. You never saw my dad get up at 5AM and iron his shirts. Like she'll call him out. I was like Love that. Yeah, me too.

Mario: I love it too. When she

Robert: says things like that, I'm like, What a girl.

Mario: I love it. So what is she doing back?

Robert: So she graduated college and now she is a property manager at Personal Property in in LA. Nice.

Mario: Yeah. What about your oldest? What is she doing?

Robert: She's that is my oldest.

Mario: Oh, so and and then you have your middle?

Robert: My middle is director of youth services at a church. Very cool. She graduated college too. She went to a Christian university in Florida. Nice. And then the one at home wants to be a anesthesiologist nurse. That's what she do.

Mario: Makes a

Robert: lot of money. That's what she wants to do. I think the the joke at home is that she she's gonna be the most successful in the family. They do. Because she's seen, you know, my oldest made a lot of mistakes. Right? Six years to graduate college. Right? Partied her butt off. Right? Admits it. Right? And and then my middle child saw all the mistakes she made, and she graduated college in three and a half years.

Mario: Mhmm.

Robert: Right? And is is, you know, goody two shoe, church girl, great great kid, fantastic kid. And and then I got McKenna and she she just wants to, you know, make a lot of money.

Mario: That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I can't wait to read it. Yeah. No. Gonna send you Send me a proof.

Robert: Actually, you're you're on the initial copy list. I've got about 12 people that are getting initial copies.

Mario: I'll buy it. And here's the deal. Friends should always pay full price. That's my take on that.

Robert: I believe that especially in my career of selling solar to residential. Enough with

Mario: the discounts for friends and family. Give you a break, they're the ones supporting you.

Robert: Yeah. How many houses I've done for no charge, it's insane.

Mario: No. Yeah, I bet.

Robert: Oh my God. Pain.

Mario: That's pretty awesome. So washing. Yeah. This is your next thing for the foreseeable future. What you've been a year in. Yep. Guys have cracked the market which is super hard.

Robert: Super hard.

Mario: Chinese cable. It's like, come here 50, 60 year old white American male Yeah. And let me change your mind Yeah. About why you should change from press general cable, prismium, Okanai, Southwire to Washington. Right. Or you go from AWG, WTEC direct sale of highly availability to washing. Right. So those are the two verticals you're you're fighting.

Robert: Yeah.

Mario: What's it been like?

Robert: Yeah. Great question by the way. So the way I look at the market is that the market's big. Right? And we're not looking to we're just looking for a portion of the market. Yeah. We're not looking to take Southwire's business, Brisbane's business, general's business. They've done a great job, you know, they can have their business. That's fine. Ultimately, it's up to the customer to make a decision. Right? And so if I can put in front of them a high quality product at a very good price with great lead times and we stand behind our product, then we should be able to compete in the market. And that's really all we ask. Alright? And and that's really all jackass. And it's been a you know, the first year, like, to your point, I mean, get through the MSA, NDAs, MSAs, quality reports, all this stuff, AVLs. Right? And, you know, just recently, we just and I think I told you last night, we got CTO audit certification for our factory in China, which is massive. We had a massive develop the largest developer in The US come to us and say, we need you to be CT audit.

Mario: We talked about this when you first started Yeah. How that was gonna be key.

Robert: Yeah. And it was a long process, Mario. It took us probably five months to get it, which looking back looks like a short time, but, you know, when you're trying to build a company, it's a long time. But we finally got it, and, we are the first Chinese manufacturer to have a North American certification on our factory. Very cool. And CTL is the number one cable engineering certification firm in The US. So I mean, it's a big big deal. And I mean, there are companies here in The US that don't even have CTL. Yeah. Right? So I mean, it just it just solidifies everything that that I believe in Jack and his priorities of his manufacturing company. Like quality is first. And and it's been a it's been a great ride and I feel like we're kind of at that, and I think I told you that tipping point. We're we're starting to get, a lot of attraction. You know, we've got a CRM. So we know we're getting a ton of ask for the product. So we know the market wants it. And now we're at the point now we're on AVLs and now we're at the point where we're really I mean, the last, I would say q some of q three, q four, q one of this year, we're really starting to to get our stride going.

Mario: Yeah. Earlier today, you said and you looked at me and said, you gotta listen to this. Sometimes being a slow second Yeah. Is better than a fast first. Yeah. There's probably a lot of that in your current customers. Yeah. They're kinda sitting in their their their watching, they talk to you, they know you.

Robert: I mean, the fortunate thing for me

Mario: is cracking.

Robert: Yeah. Yeah. The fortunate for me thing with me is I do have a reputation in the market.

Mario: Yeah.

Robert: And it was easier for me to get to the front of the line. Right? But you still gotta get through MSAs and you gotta get through, you know, the the Chinese portion of it and, you know, quality certifications and all this others AVLs. Right? Just kind of roadblock after roadblock. Yeah. But once you get past those, you know, we think we have a viable enough product to to really, you know, make some damage in the market. Yeah. And and I think that this is gonna be our breakout year for sure.

Mario: I'm excited to see it. I'm cheering for you. I know you are, Martin.

Robert: You know what I I have to say this. I mean, since we're on the we're on the podcast now, but you have been one of the few true supporters of Washington from the beginning and I deeply appreciate that because we also had a conversation last night about, you know, when you when you do successful things, it's amazing when you look back and some of the people who you thought were your closest people Mhmm. Wanna see you fail.

Mario: Yeah. And it's true.

Robert: It's true. I mean, I know people who who think highly of me and they they're like, oh, I don't know. He should make that move or he should have done that or blah blah blah. I don't I don't really care. That's that's just noise. Yep. Right? And you're an entrepreneur. You know this more than anybody else. Cool guys.

Mario: You're on

Robert: an island. Yeah. Right? And so the way I look at myself is that I as long as I'm pointed in direction, I've got the right strategy and the right plan, I know I can execute. Yeah. Right? And so we're just executing right now.

Mario: I I'm pumped. I think except for the occasional name joke, always go, whooshin. You pull out this word.

Robert: Yeah. But I think the branding of it has gotten better and better over there. I mean, think you would agree.

Mario: I I do. I do. And you guys have done a really good job moving from the the Asian Chinese

Robert: Marketing.

Mario: Marketing to Western marketing. American. Yeah. Like high quality. Yeah. Highly

Robert: No. And that's Jack's credit. Jack's done all that, man.

Mario: And I think I think he's smart enough and I don't know him, but I think he's been smart enough to lean in Yes. And and trust you with some of that. And so kudos to to two ears and one mouth. Right? That that's the

Robert: Yeah. Because I mean, many times have you talked to a CEO and they're literally not even listening to you? Yeah. Right? I mean I get full attention. Mean, gotta remember, this guy's running a massive company. I mean, we're selling tons overseas. I mean, Anel is Washington's number one customer worldwide. Anel. Anel. I mean, everybody knows who they are.

Mario: I know.

Robert: For the last ten years, our largest customer. Right? So I mean I mean, he has this massive business and he gives me a ton of attention, and we're just starting. Right? And so I'm just like, man, that's how bad he wants this though. You know, he really wants The US market and and I love that. I I really I get I drive energy from that.

Mario: So okay. Last plug in as a sale. So watching, if you're a top 50 EPC or a top five renewables distributor Yeah. Do you guys have like a sample cable pack that you can ship out or what do you guys do for that?

Robert: Yeah. So in our office and a great question by the way. We, in our office in Irvine, we have samples that we can send out. Cool. And believe it or not, early on people wanted samples and I haven't gotten a request in probably six months. I mean, the last sample we sent actually, I'm under NDA because I can't talk about it, but it's a very large, OEM company here in The US for, I won't I won't go any further than that. But anyways, we they they asked for some samples. Of And course, it's for testing, obviously. Sure. But, but you mean, yeah, we don't really get request for I mean, I I've sent you samples.

Mario: Yep. I've seen it. I've I've worked on it. Yeah. Feels great.

Robert: Yeah. It's great. And we've and we've actually had voltage cable. Yeah. We've had employees do the stripping and terminating on our cable and they gave a high praise. Because that's something I think that people don't understand is, you know, when you talk to these splicers, you know, it's the procurement guys all they care about is price. Yeah. Right? And when you talk to a director of procurement or maybe even a CFO, they look at it as a bigger picture, more pipeline. Okay, how do we drive this to pipeline instead of a project by project? But really you know, cable is a lot like solar racking, right, where the the installer has a big influence. A bigger influence you think because those guys are very very high paid. And if they're struggling with stripping cable in the field and they're getting paid $100,150 an hour and to put a termination on, that's lost wages. That's lost labor.

Mario: Yeah. It matters.

Robert: And so we Jack has done a tremendous job in in the technical aspect of making sure that, you know, we're still abiding by UL and everything, but how we can get that sheeting off in a timely fashion. It doesn't separate it separates from the copper. You know, Concentrix fine doesn't bundle up. I mean, we've terrible quality out there that customers have shown us. I've seen it. I know everybody has. American made.

Mario: And there was a brand last year, they were taking off the semi conductive layer of the insulation. There's all this residue left on there. Yeah. They had to sand there. It was a gigantic mess. Yeah. The EPC that was working with us and

Robert: But it's always something that you just don't it's it's the stuff that you don't think of. And that's why I wanted to take it to some splicers and get their hands on. Let them say, you know, have a say in, hey, you know what? This washing cable did really really good job in the field, you know. And that's why I I now go out to all our job sites, when they're pulling our cable. Yep. And I wanna know how their terminations are going. I wanna know how the pool is going. How how it how it comes off the reels, if it's set up correctly. Was I at a big job site last week in Arizona, and they had nothing but great. And and one thing I love is that when you meet with these superintendents of job sites, you know, because I've been to job sites for all my career, as I give them tips on, you know, what I've seen in other job sites. And and this was a newer EPC and and they were they would just love the information. Yeah. Right? And and because these are long time electrician guys, which is kinda my background too. Right? Which really the electrical part of my background has really helped me in this business, you know, because I have that renewable and electrical background. And then they wanna talk switch gear, we can really get in the weeds.

Mario: Yeah. You've been good to us also. Actually, recently, we just closed with an EPC you sent our way.

Robert: Awesome, man.

Mario: Did I tell you about that? No. Yeah. We we got our first orders

Robert: and Awesome, man.

Mario: So it's it's been awesome.

Robert: I I believe in, you know, a lot of times, Mario, what you find is, you know, people want you to pay them for information. Mhmm. And I've never been that person. Right? And I I try to surround myself with people who I respect and who I like and I have that for you. I had it early on. And if I could help your business, I would do that because guess what? I know from someone like you, it comes back to me.

Mario: 100%.

Robert: And I also know what's even better is that you will you will say my name in conversations I'm not in. And to me, that's more important than anything else. Right?

Mario: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, I appreciate you having is there anything else you wanna touch on?

Robert: No. I I appreciate this time. I appreciate you having me here. Utah has been great. It's actually when I was thinking about leaving California, this was on my top three list of places because I've spent so much time here fifteen years ago. The summers here are just ridiculous. I mean, your guys' views and

Mario: Yeah. Summers.

Robert: Golf. I mean, it's just beautiful here.

Mario: You're gonna play some golf this week?

Robert: I'm playing tomorrow with an EPC. Yes. Nice. So I'm pretty excited. Actually, golf course recommendation you made, so thank you.

Mario: It's gonna be awesome. Well, thanks for coming.

Robert: Hey. Thank you for having me.

Mario: We'll see you.

Robert: See you, buddy.